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Alcotec 5L kit (Read 1143 times)
vino-tinto
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Alcotec 5L kit
Sep 26th, 2013 at 8:26am
 
Would there be any advantage to using invert sugar as opposed to table cane sugar when making an Alcotec 5L kit ?.
Would the flavour be improved?.
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Manteur
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Re: Alcotec 5L kit
Reply #1 - Sep 26th, 2013 at 10:24am
 
Possibly. Once when I was moaning about the duff results I'd got with a Prohibition kit, I was advised that it would have worked better with brewing sugar, and this is generally regarded as the route to a cleaner taste.  Whether in this context inverting table sugar would be just as good I don't know.
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Andrew
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Re: Alcotec 5L kit
Reply #2 - Sep 26th, 2013 at 11:20am
 
There will be difference in the final alcohol quality. The yeast will convert the normal sugar to invert sugar for the yeast to work, so using invert sugar will mean it will start fermenting faster. However, the final taste will be the same. For higher alcohol, you use brewing sugar (dextrose monohydrate), this is what you must use when you use the special 23% yeasts.

Use whatever sugar you prefer (invert, normal, brewing), the end results will be the same.

This is from the conversation I have just had with the manufacturer.
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Re: Alcotec 5L kit
Reply #3 - Sep 26th, 2013 at 3:15pm
 
Ye-es. I'm tempted to say they would say that.  Wink

They obviously anticipate off flavours because they provide an activated charcoal step to mop 'em up. Maybe it would be better if they were less evident in the first place?

The yeast initially invert normal sugar, but maybe the initial high concentrations stress some other metabolic pathway and cause it to make off flavours?

I still think there's lots of little snippets of information that point toward getting a cleaner wash in the first place with brewing sugar even with the yeasts that are only a bit extreme.
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Re: Alcotec 5L kit
Reply #4 - Sep 26th, 2013 at 5:27pm
 
Manteur wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 3:15pm:
They obviously anticipate off flavours because they provide an activated charcoal step to mop 'em up. Maybe it would be better if they were less evident in the first place?

All high alcohol kits require the use of carbon or charcoal. This is to absorb unwanted nasties during the fermentation period. Nothing sinister, just used to get a more neutral flavour than just using yeast, which will taint the final flavour. After all, the yeast used will change the flavour of any alcohol, thats why there are different strains for different types of wine/beer. After the charcoal, you should have a neutral flavour. With spirits, it is also advisable to pass through a carbon cartridge afterwards to make it purer.

The manufacturer also stocks brewing sugar under their own name, and they said to use whatever sugar for that kit as it will all produce the same result. He could have pushed the brewing sugar, but said it would not make the end result any better.

However, if using the ultra high alcohol yeasts, then you must use brewing sugar/dextrose monohydrate for it to work.
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Re: Alcotec 5L kit
Reply #5 - Sep 27th, 2013 at 6:02am
 
The wash my Prohibition kit produced was noticeably brown in colour and to my mind it tasted and smelled a bit "brown" too! This has left a lasting impression on me, as you can imagine. Obviously I must have messed up at some point, probably at the carbon step, hence my inclination towards any measures that might reduce the amount of taint in the first place. But perhaps not.
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BoatCraig
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Re: Alcotec 5L kit
Reply #6 - Oct 8th, 2013 at 4:34pm
 
Andrew wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 11:20am:
Use whatever sugar you prefer (invert, normal, brewing), the end results will be the same.


Not all fermentables are the same. I think thats proof that they're relying on the carbon to do all the clean work. I understand it's not sinister but I'd prefer to start with good stuff to produce less bad stuff and if I can make carbon last longer even better.

I agree with Manny. The carbon is a mop up job but not to be underestimated. It will last longer if you have less nasties and give you less hangover. A good wash distilled well will always give better results than a rush job.

There are also two major groups here.

1. Those who wish to make a neutral spirit for artificial flavouring later.

2. Those who wish to make a flavoured spirit that can be drunk as is.

The first group will be attracted by convenience but there's always a price to pay.

Smiley
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« Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2013 at 4:43pm by BoatCraig »  

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Re: Alcotec 5L kit
Reply #7 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 6:53pm
 
Does this conclude that its possible to use a carbon filter more than once/for 1 litre of 40 percent spirit? In my case (using an airstill) I wait until the wash is really clear, but I have always used a new carbon filter for every 1 litre of spirit. I don't rush it either, its a hobby craft for me so I'm aiming for a quality product. It would save a few quid if I could reuse them  Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Oct 7th, 2017 at 6:55pm by mattmoxey »  
 
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Re: Alcotec 5L kit
Reply #8 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 10:07pm
 
Matt, I've just started my 1st Alcotech 5lt kit so I'm new to this game, I usually freeze some parts of my wines for fortification purposes but I'm only boosting the abv to around 18-20%, the kit instructions will be followed to the letter before freezing to up the ante to around 30% then putting it through a Brita carbon water filter, I can see no reason not to use the filter several times. Wink
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Re: Alcotec 5L kit
Reply #9 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 4:21pm
 
Ok, thanks. That's handy to know. I have been using the still spirits carbon filter for filtering my vodka (vodka star yeast) which works well for me. I have experimented today by using a filter twice and the spirit is slower to filter through but that's not a problem. I'm sure that I read somewhere that you can clean these filters? I have tried using a brita water filter also but I believe this gives you a neutral spirit. I have to say that I have been following the advice from this section of the forum regarding a second run and making cuts and it has been very useful. SWMBO and I are amazed at the smoothness of the finished product and I will always be doing it this way from now on! Cheers!
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« Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2017 at 4:25pm by mattmoxey »  
 
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Re: Alcotec 5L kit
Reply #10 - Oct 10th, 2017 at 1:49pm
 
We tend to use the cartridge for a whole spirit wash - 6 filters through the cartridge with no adverse affects.
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Re: Alcotec 5L kit
Reply #11 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 7:04pm
 
Ok, thanks Andrew. I shall try re-using the filters in this way.  Smiley
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Re: Alcotec 5L kit
Reply #12 - Oct 24th, 2017 at 9:38am
 
mattmoxey wrote on Oct 7th, 2017 at 6:53pm:
Does this conclude that its possible to use a carbon filter more than once/for 1 litre of 40 percent spirit? In my case (using an airstill)


In my case, I am only after the ethanol. I dont use carbon/filters after the finished wash stage.

An AirStill as all stills is basically a seperation machine, and we are using that device to leach,
refine and percolate our alcohol.

I do stripping runs collect to all the alcohol no cuts. Then water back to 30% and distill again now using the cut method.

If any taints are left I water back to 30% then start to distill again. I have so far only had to triple distill and one of those runs was a 20Litre particularly oxidised wine I rescued the alcohol from. Embarrassed
VT Has double distilling with an airstill as a sticky in the Spirits thread.

I happily make my Neutral/Vodka as an enjoyable hobby so more time used and a loss of some alcohol (the not so good stuff) Works for me.

I know the AirStill standard carbon filter tub is probably food grade plastic but all the distilling forums I have read say to keep spirits away from any plastics as they will degrade into your prized efforts. Especially after a 8 - 10 hour soak.  Huh
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« Last Edit: Oct 24th, 2017 at 3:09pm by DeliriumTremens »  

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Re: Alcotec 5L kit
Reply #13 - Jan 13th, 2018 at 9:23pm
 
Andrew wrote on Oct 10th, 2017 at 1:49pm:
We tend to use the cartridge for a whole spirit wash - 6 filters through the cartridge with no adverse affects.


Grin Andrew is this the EZ cartridge carbon filter?

If it is, I always thought you could only use them once, although I do run my spirit through twice.
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